Ep. #13, The Future of Storytelling with Archita Mandal

Rachel Chalmers: Today, I'm thrilled to have Archita Mandal on the show. Archita is a writer, director, and producer with many film festival accolades. Her directorial debut, "Untread", is a science fiction thriller short film that was screened at the Women's International Film & Arts Festival in 2015.

After several short films and a music video, she's filmmaking full time. She's held leadership roles in the technology space and was the first speaker for her company ever at the Grace Hopper Conference in 2018.

Archita grew up in four different countries and calls herself a global citizen. She has dual bachelor's in management information systems and business administration degree from Wayne State University, Michigan, and a one-year executive education and corporate innovation from the Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Archita lives in the San Francisco Bay area with her husband and two kids. Recently she wrote directed and produced "The Nair House", a 37 minute film about a couple from South Asian descent in the Bay Area. The film deals with the high life of Silicon Valley and emotional disconnect within a marriage. It was a semifinalist at the oscar-qualifying Flickers Rhode Island Film Festival and is available on Amazon Prime.

She's currently working on a documentary film on DIPG cancer, a rare form of children's brain cancer. When the pandemic hit, she created and launched a web series known as "Right Here and Right Now with Archita", interviewing COVID-19 experts and leaders to share relevant information and insights, to highlight good work at the grassroots level and to document the collective COVID experience.

She's also developing multiple narrative feature screenplays and we'll direct a feature film soon. She's also co-producing a bunch of initiatives with an NGO to work at the humanitarian space. She loves a good cup of tea, a great conversation, a good joke, and playing the sitar.

Archita, thank you so much for being on the show. It's great to have you.

Archita Mandal: Thank you, Rachel. It's a pleasure being here.

Rachel: You are a filmmaker and a storyteller. Can you tell our listeners why I invited you on my podcast about the societal impacts of AI?

Archita: Absolutely. I'm at the intersection of technology and films, harnessing the power of AI and storytelling. Currently, I'm an entrepreneur. My startup, UpendNow, it's going through a venture accelerator program with NEC X, which is the venture arm of NEC. And is at the forefront of just that, what we're talking about.

Societal impacts of AI is one of the big pillars of my company. UpendNow is an automated ideation and strategy platform that optimizes a pre-production workflow using and harnessing the power of generative AI. It's a gen AI enabled company that offers a boost, a productivity boost, but also elevates business growth in the realm of traditional filmmaking.

So we're not looking at synthetic videos, we're looking at the blueprint of what comes before production. So, I've brought my technology and some related skills together to ideate and work and develop this company and this brand.

Rachel: Can you give our listeners who aren't filmmakers a sense of what this ideation is? It's not the finished product at all, is it? It's like a draft, a sketch.

Archita: That's right. We're looking at creative briefs, script, storyboard, but a lot more. Pre-production is 30% of the work of the entire, you know, high-end commercial or film, short videos, and short films. And we are not targeting large films right now, but we're in the realm of video currently.

So that is where we're at. And yes, definitely what comes before the shoot and the editing part and all of that is, of course, post-production much later.

Rachel: So a producer or a director could build an ideation in UpendNow, take it out to fundraisers and raise funding for the film on the strength of it?

Archita: Absolutely, that's one of the target uses, and we're at a very early stage right now, but that's definitely on the agenda that people should be able to use it as a concept bible or in their pitching sessions. And that goes for creatives as well as enterprise marketing, where, you know, you have so many stakeholders in a marketing team that, you know, they'd have to approve.

Similarly, brand positioning is so important for startups that are scaling and then, you know, the execs get involved. So definitely pitching, keeping account of what's needed, and definitely lots more simulation is possible right now because of generative AI, right? Saving so much time, decreases time to market and saves costs.

Rachel: So you are a filmmaker who's embracing the potential of these new technologies. But I know you've had a lot of pushback from creatives who are afraid that they will be replaced by AI technologies. What are some of the reasons that they give?

Archita: Right now, the phase that we're at, there's this whole trend shift, right? And there's a lot of uncertainty. So due to that, the creatives are scared about what can get automated and the potential. And sometimes when we haven't had the dialogue of letting them know where we are at, what we're really doing, we get the pushback at that phase.

So once they understand or they have any information or they want to even know what we're doing, then we don't get that pushback because they realize that we're actually not generating the content. We're just a visual storytelling copilot. And that would mean that they can do their work faster.

But the pushback has been mostly about the fear about automation, which is not just film industry based fear, right? It's in multiple different sectors of all kinds of industries. And in some ways it's legit. It depends on the workflow they have.

It depends on, you know, are they working for themselves or a production agency? And if they have the power for this decision-making, then in which they do, you know, if they want to use a platform or not. I mean, they have the right to just wait it out and see what the impact really is like.

Rachel: I love your phrase, "Copilot for storytelling." How do you position what you're building as an amplifier for makers rather than a threat?

Archita:

We position as, you know, you have an idea or you have a project, and then you can simulate all these different things within 10 minutes versus two weeks to six weeks trying to understand what your client needs or what your production capability needs to be, and different iterations of that power to edit, power to use generative AI.

A lot of all of that in vertical integrated solutions. So we're amplifying this message as we're getting into lots more conversation that, you know, this is more about helping the creatives do their work way faster than they were able to do traditionally. And this is a boost for traditional filmmaking and it's a different type of an angle as compared to what you're seeing in the market these days with Zora, Pika Labs, Runway, which is also great and it's used for different purposes, but definitely not--

You know, it's very hard to use those tools to generate something substantial. It's not very easy to include that in the workflow of the creatives that are, you know, largely employed by the agencies also because of a lot of regulation and policy issues. So the creatives understand that. So that's kind of what we're sticking to. That we're your copilot and we're going to help you.

Rachel: It occurs to me as we're talking that, you know, people love film and media that has a very original voice. I think they're going to continue to love that maybe even more as our commons gets flooded with these AI generated things. By cutting the cost of making films, maybe this will like amplify those original creative voices. Maybe it will create more opportunities for people to be filmmakers.

Archita: Absolutely. And that's the intention, right? Because I myself am a filmmaker. I would love to make films till the end of my life. I mean, if I'm able to do that.

So there's a huge lot of craft involved that people develop over time with expertise and that create a spark. It's very hard to capture with AI. At least, you know, in the journey we are right now in the future or the near future, things might change a bit and that's hard to really predict, you know, in what angles this is all going to play out. But for now, I'm definitely betting on the fact that human beings are going to be at the forefront and center of all kinds of awesome narratives.

Rachel: Is there anything about generative AI that makes you fear for the future of storytelling and filmmaking?

Archita: I definitely think that there's a place for generative AI. It has a place in editing and BFX as we are seeing currently. The shift is pretty large there with Adobe coming out with, you know, integration of Zora, Pika Labs, Runway, and all of that good stuff for B-rolls in Premiere, that just tells you that a company that is in the, you know, at the forefront of platforms and tools for filmmakers, even they see that that's the shift that's going to help the filmmakers.

And I do definitely think in editing, it's very powerful. It saves you a ton of time if you're able to do that. But I would say, the fear mostly is about still not having charter and visibility into how the models are being developed and what is being done. And so what that does is that, you know, there a lot of uncertainty.

And in that uncertainty, I just wonder if people stop studying film. That actually is a serious concern in my head because are they going to still go to film schools and learn this very extra special craft, right? What's going to happen? Are they going to upskill and all move to the generative AI platform where as regulations and policies are not being fleshed out properly yet? And what happens to this whole wave, right?

So these are the kind of uncertainties I see. In terms of breaking it down into, tactical usage, I think that's going to be all over the place. There's going to be more different vertical integrated solution to take care of certain parts of filmmaking. As I just said, you know, we're doing well in the post-production phase, right?

My company is definitely in the pre-production phase. And then even in production right now, you're seeing AI usage with camera controls, a lot of different things that's going to come in play, right? And that's all good stuff because it's going to increase efficiency.

But in terms of filmmaking as a craft itself, I'm fearful that people may not be very motivated to take it up as a profession because it's a struggle. Storytellers will still be storytellers. But how is this all going to play out in the next five to 10 years? There's certain amount of uncertainty. As just as I said, you know, I'm not sure people will take this as a medium to study because if there's no growth and you can't-- You know, this can be your bread and butter, then that's going to be difficult for people to get into.

Rachel: Yeah, you know my background's in literature and that whole field is facing similar challenges, you know. Even television writing, which had been for a long time, the path to, you know, middle class prosperity with writing skill is getting eroded. Not so much by gen AI is by the changing landscape of how television is funded. I do think though, that people have a profound desire to tell stories.

I agree with you that the risk is that the only people who will be in a position to do that are people with inherited wealth, who don't have to worry about providing for their families. And that has inevitable negative effects on the range and diversity of the stories that get told.

Archita: Very true. That would be the delta. Pretty strong delta. You know, I want to make sure that there are diverse storytellers bringing in all viewpoints from all sections and sectors of the society. And I'm not sure that it is, it's going to be that profession. Just as the journalists, as you're rightly saying. I mean, there's a lot of flux in unsure land there.

Same thing, exact same thing for filmmaking. I do know that there's a lot of fear. I've been talking to agencies in LA and in terms of, you know, what can this do, what can this do next? And even like on a larger scale, what, you know, with TV and streaming services, you know, they're losing a ton of money according to the business reports.

So I don't know if they're going to shift their models too, right?

Rachel: I think they already are.

Archita: They are. I mean, I don't know if you caught up with, what is it? "Love Death + Robots" on Netflix.

Rachel: Yeah.

Archita: That's a very good one to talk about because you can see the the mouth movements are not exactly... I mean, it's 95% there, but not 100% there. Like, AI generated--T here's such a type of charm to it. It has a gaming like feel, right? But that element of the human touch is still kind of crave for that after some point.

Rachel: Yeah.

Archita: So there's going to be a place. I think that we're just probably in the academy world have like best AI film category. But we're still going to have like best actors and actresses and best films and all of that good stuff.

It's just very hard to take that away. Just like the fundamental muscle of how a journalist thinks and operates. It's very hard to capture, to be very honest with you. And AI is not going to do reporting, so there's just no way.

Rachel: With your startup founder hat on, do you worry about the intensity of the hype around AI right now?

Archita: I do. I do. Everybody is reading up and trying their best to get on board with it. So because it is the intersection of media, entertainment and technology, for me at least in the viability of having this business and running this business, the funding is important. Talking to the right kind of investors is important and I just feel like very few investors have an understanding of both.

Rachel: Yeah.

Archita:

So either they're very technology based and have a great understanding and portfolio there or they're very good at the media entertainment sector. But with the AI hype, there are companies that are coming out churning and trying to find the product market fit.

So there's a lot of rush in terms of, we can get lost for sure, and maybe the journey might be a lot more tedious than anticipated, but that's just comes with, every era is different and we are going through a whole different type of revolution right now. So definitely there'll be challenges and tailwinds and headwinds.

Rachel: What is something you wish you'd known when you started UpendNow?

Archita: You know, my biggest thing is how important it is to understand fundraising and getting through that phase. It's a herculean task for a first time founder, and the system is not set up that well for it at least three years back. Nowadays, I'm seeing a lot more venture studios and incubators and lots more in the ecosystem to boost and provide a platform for first time founders.

And when I first started with the research and figuring out if this is what I want to do, and that journey has been so long. I mean, if I was a serial entrepreneur or any serial entrepreneur who's had some amount of success or failures, doesn't matter. They know what they're doing. They know how to do it or they have that extra set of knowledge, expertise, network, which can simply talk about how important that is.

And just knowing the whole process and understanding what would lead to what and how and what to do is a huge gap between first time founders and serial entrepreneurs. So we were already like on a slow path. So I wish I knew that before and got myself armed with that knowledge a lot better. So I was better prepared for the journey ahead.

Rachel: What has been most helpful from the program in supporting you as a first time founder?

Archita: It's been incredible. First off, they pushed us for a customer discovery to a very deep level. Which I feel, like, we're all hacking that process, right? We read it up, you know, all the data that Sequoia needs or all these companies need, what investors need, and then we go and reverse track, engineer the whole process and exactly how much data do you need. But that's not how it should be done, right?

Like, in my case, because I come from content research background as well, I spent a significant amount of time constantly talking, talking to people, right? And then I'm kind of happy and proud that I took so long to come here because we did a lot of the due diligence. But with the way NEC is structured or this program is structured, they give you more insights of what you should be doing and shouldn't be doing.

Like, don't offer up the solution right away. Make sure you understand the customer's ecosystem and their real pain points and scope it out. Basically, it's almost like investigative journalism. And that was the beauty of the customer discovery process for me 'cause that's not how my brain equated that whole function, and that has been instrumental.

In order for me to understand, you know, now I'm getting closer to product market fit in this whole journey and definitely helped us design our roadmap better. What would bring traction, setting the KPI metrics. All of that good stuff that's needed in the early stages of the company and the latest stages of the company and forever. So it just gives you the right kind of insight to get you started on a very healthy, solid baseline.

Rachel: Excellent. What are some of your favorite sources for learning about AI?

Archita: You know, my go-to typically are two places just because of lack of time. I wish I could do more, to be honest. NFX Ventures, they have a newsletter and they have some very strong writers. I feel like their VCs or their content writers really understand the AI space well. They were one of the first places that published about all kinds of five different AI categories, right?

And breaking that down into what it means for the business, what your storytelling needs to be from that perspective, right? And in terms of the larger AI technology scope and greater details, case studies and narratives, the Information, which is a news organization that I have great respect for, is my favorite place to go to read. And I read all area articles as many as possible whenever I can.

And there's a whole bunch of newsletters, right? I don't currently subscribe to any creative subscription, but I follow them on X and LinkedIn and I see what they have to say and that those are snippets just because of time, issues, and constraints. I get the lowdown on who's experimenting with which platform, who's recommending what, what's going on, that kind of information. Just, you know, bite-size.

Rachel: Very cool recommendations. Archita, I'm going to make you god emperor of the universe. For the next five years, everything goes the way you want it to go. What does the world look like five years from now?

Archita: That sounds lovely. Sort of refreshing. You know, I would want to see a lot more peace seriously that would generate a harmonious environment in where things thrive.

And I would love to see technology be a tool and embedded in a way of life, but not taking over. That would be my biggest thing. And human beings really capturing the entire potential of what they're here for, which is beyond the physical realm of things and actually growing in a way that is exponential.

In everything to do with people being healthy, eating the right kind of food. And then it's funny, it all boils down to that, right? Like, I would just envision a world that is healed together, peaceful, and definitely that would provide a room for a lot more growth. And that's the world I would imagine five years from now.

Definitely not apocalyptic. Definitely not technology rolling over every aspect of our lives. And that would be my wish. That people play more, they talk more, a more relationship based society and a goodness based society.

Rachel: That is a beautiful vision and I look forward to living there. If you had a generationship, a colony ship to explore the stars, what would you name it?

Archita: You know, before I even say it, the credit goes to a friend of mine who had talked about this. I would name a Jericho Rose. I don't know if you've heard of a resurrection plant, which is called Rose of Jericho. And what it is, is that that plant can survive for several years without water. It looks dead until you water it and it kind of unfolds and becomes mossy and green when you water it. So I would name it Jericho Rose.

Rachel: What a powerful image of hope. Thank you so much.

Archita, it's been a delight to have you on the show. Thank you. Listeners, please check out her work on Netflix. Look out for UpendNow and plan to start ideating your storyboards with Archita's technology.

Archita: Thank you so much, Rachel, for your time and talking to me today. It was such a pleasure.